Real Estate of Things
Real Estate of Things

Episode 28 · 2 months ago

Property Insurance in the Face of Billion Dollar Disasters

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In 2021, there were 20 separate billion-dollar disasters in the United States — triple the 40-year average. That has to create some widespread effect on property insurance, right? 

Hear our conversation with Lee Rogers, President at realprotect, as we cover:

  • What competitive pricing really means
  • Widespread disasters that drive up the cost of insurance everywhere
  • Flood, hurricane, earthquake… and global reinsurance 

More information about Lee and today’s topics:

To stay up to date on The Real Estate of Things, check us out on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , or our website . 

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Insurance, insurance, insurance. It's all fun and Games till you need it. I've known Lee Rogers, president of real protect, for a while. He and his team are the absolute pros for real estate investors. They get our space. Take a guess at how many billion dollar plus weather event disasters happen in the US each year. It is absolutely crazy listen to hear that and a ton of other metrics around insurance. Thanks for listening. You're listening to the real estate of things podcast. Welcome to the real estate of things podcast. I'm your host, Dalton Elliott. I'm joined today by Lee Rogers, president of real protect. Lee, thank you for joining. Thanks. Thanks, Dalton. I appreciate the opportunity and excited to join you. You and I saw each other on the road not too long ago. We were in Nashville for the I am in build to rank conference, which was a blast. I have never heard of a single person who went to Nashville and had a bad time. Now Nashville's Nashville is definitely a great town and a great town to visit, not yeah, a great town for real estate. Of Pastors Right now as well that are building for in and also with existing inmentoria. Real, real, real exciting time in the area. Yeah, it is booming. And so you're in the insurance side of the space. So before we kick it off, I want we, the audience, to know a bit about your background. So give me the Lee Rogers Story and then I want to dive into have some wather and disaster related insurance talk. I'm excited, absolutely. Yeah, just a little bit about me. I am a graduate of the University of Georgia. So go dogs. We're riding high this year after our national championship, and football not so much. After basketball. This is we're recording this in March and we've had our worst basketball season the history of the University of Georgia and actually, I think the SEC but Avid University of Georgia. Fan and I've been in the insurance business now...

...for about twenty four years. We started real protect about eight years ago in response to this emerging opportunity that that we saw in the market to work with residential real estate investors. We saw that it was underserved part of the insurance market and a real opportunity for us to enter this space and to take some expertise that we had not only in the real estate world, but also in the insurance industry and our insurance background and marry the tow and so we have been working exclusively with residential real estate investors for the last eight years. We write insurance in all fifty states we have clients and about fourteen different countries and we're super excited that we work get to work with, you know, folks like you and Lema one, to provide loancompliant and industry leading insurance to your borrowers and we do it day in and day out. It's our passions, what we love to do. We've seen a ton of change over the over the last several years and that's real. We've been accelerated the last few years with everything has been going on in the world and so excited to be a part of such a dynamic and ever growing and ever changing industry. Yeah, I just clicked them. I had usually I wait till the end to kind of highlight the guests company if they have kind of a service they provide. But I really want to start off by highlighting the fact that you and the team at real protect get the real estate investor business. We work with you in the team on a lone level basis, probably almost daily across bunch of different products that we have. And you know, we run into investors often times who reach out to their normal insurance provider, whoever they have their homeowners insurance through, and it's kind of like it's just our space right when you look at US versus the forward mortgage side of the space. Yes, they're mortgages, but they are very nuanced and very different in a lot of regards. And the same thing goes for insurance, and you and the team ten...

...out of ten hit the nail on the head. You're just super responsive to that's another thing that toughs sometimes, but responsive you get real estate investors. So I'm going to move the tail end up to the front and and if anybody wants to get in touch with a real protect is a real protectcom. So, Yep, exactly, yeah, and lost. So we appreciate that very much. But we also come from a place of knowing that most folks have an insurance relationship and there are a lot of times dealing with us because we're recommendation of you guys as a lender and every project that we ensure, whether it's a fix and flip, whether it's a long term by and hold, whether it's a short term rental, whether it's a multifamily property, some mixed use, everything that we do, we know is unique, just like every investor, and so we really try to find out as much as we can about the project. We want to provide a very competitively priced product is going to help get the loan close but also provide that protection. And want to mean about competitively price. What I didn't say was the least expensive. We always want to be competitive because we know folks are price sensitive. But I have a saying around here. My folks will tell you they've heard me say of several times as your insurance can be either really cheap on the front end or the back end. Now, deally, you want to make sure that it's competitively priced, but we don't want to the most expensive time to have cheap insurances on the back end after a claim, and we try to avoid had at all costs. But you know, we really want to take the approach as a counselor not just a product provider right, because nobody really gives too much thought about their insurance until they have a claim and then at that point sometimes that's when you know really folks pay attention to what those policy say, whether or not we sold it or somebody else sold it. A lot of folks have learned some really expensive lesson, insurance lessons after a claim. So we try to we try to provide what we you know, everything industry leading coverage and competitive pricing on the front end so that everybody's happy, especially in the bit of that claim. Yeah, it's very sage advice. Yeah, you not not the area that you want to look to go with...

...absolute cheapstoption. It is something that you don't think about unless you actually need it in a lot of cases, and putting a little bit of thought into what if could serve everybody well. And speaking of what if, whenever covid hit, we had some record rainfall. That had just happened in February two thousand and twenty in upstate South Carolina where I am. We had it's like six inches of rain in a day and we had a couple of months in the first half of two thousand and twenty, I think three. Two or three months in the first half of two thousand and twenty ended up being top ten record rainfall months for the area, and so I started to go down a weather rabbit hole. Just had some more time on my hands. Yeah, because we were in lockdown and it was just curious, like what is happening? Why is it happening? You know, you hear about, you know, low pressure system, high pressure system, keep on unpacking. So went down a weather rabbit hole and with that, you know, disasters right, and I feel like if you you turn on the TV, you see any day of the week, it feels like, you see, you know, forest fires, floods, record rainfall, hurricane seasons getting worse and worse, both in number of hurricanes and in magnitude of damage and strength of hurricanes tornadoes. All right, like ten years ago when I moved up to the upstate, I'm originally from the coast, so I dealt with her ricanes growing up. Got Pretty comfortable with you know, how you deal with hurricane, and then came up here and ten years ago, like tornadoes weren't really a thing, but I feel like they're creeping more and more into our neck of the woods. And you're not terribly far from US right. You're in northeast Georgia. We're just outside of Atlanta. Yeah, so we're in the Atlanta market. Yeah, so definitely in really, you know, we get our favorite number of tornadoes in the southeast, but really we see a lot of those events across the Midwest as well. But yeah, exactly. There are...

...more and more severe weather events that have been occurring over the last several years and, without getting political or trying to figure out, like you know, what folks really think about climate change or global warming or whatever the term is, the the fact is that there are more and more events. Now what's causing it or what to how to politically handle that? That's that's another issue for another day. But I can tell you that the insurance industry is having to pick up the TAB for a lot of these a lot of these events, and that and those events that are not that still occur. In any widespread event, you're going to hear a couple of numbers. You're going to you're going to hear kind of the total cost of the event and then for us the insurance world, we kind of hear the numbers of what's the ensured value of the event, because not everything is, you know, is going to be insured. You mentioned some six inch, you know, record rainfalls a few years ago. Well, that likely led to the flooding of some properties that don't have flood insurance because they're not mapped into a flood zone. Every property United States theoretically could have flood damage. Right typically, a borrower is forced to buy flood insurance when their property is mapped into a flood zone. But when you have events that are widespread like that, and really those that the problems you hear have. You hear about these one and a hundred or one and five hundred year events that are happening every other year now, and so you probably have a lot of borrowers that, either personally or professionally, of experienced some sort of loss that may not have been insured, and in a lot of these events will hear about the the total amount of loss versus the insured amount of the loss, and there's other programs to help those investors or those homeowners in that situation. But it also, if you think about it, also creates opportunity for investors to come in when folks are trying to get rid of those properties because they may not have the capital to to repair them because they may be weren't insured or ensured properly, and so there's you know, you hate to you hate to think about these widespread events as...

...being opportunities, but real estate investors are nothing if not opera opportunistic in general, because they're always out looking for the inventory. And really feeling that right now right because we were in Nashville at a build for rent conference. We're talking about folks creating that inventory. So lots of widespread disaster events. I know that's something we wanted to talk about here. I can get into a little bit of the data there. Since one thousand nine hundred and eighty, there have been three hundred and ten disasters in the United States that were billion dollar or more disasters. That's that, that threshold. That doesn't mean insured value, but that's that's that. That that threshold. So three hundred and ten, which is an average of seven point four disasters a year. And those things are things like drought, flooding, freezing, severe convective storm like your severe hail storms, thunderstorms, tornadoes, tropical cyclones that you're your hurricanes, wildfire in winter storm. So seven point four per year. In Two thousand and twenty one there were twenty separate billion dollar events in the United States, so triple the forty year average. In in two thousand and twenty one of those billion dollar events that fall into one of those categories. And again, so, whether whether you agree with how the government responds to climate change, more and more severe events are occurring now. Part of that, too, is were more populated country, so there's more property on the ground than there used to be in one thousand nine hundred and eighty, but there's so there's more occasion for there to be a billion dollar event. And the other thing too, is what the other factor? One of the things that that we've really seen to is building materials are more expensive. There's a shortage of labor. So you've got lots of factors that are driving up the costs of these things. But again, folks don't think about it. A lot of folks say, well, I'll just filling insurance claiming at the insurance company pay for it. Yes, that's what you pay for, but in the in the big picture, the Insurance Industries response to all that's going to be that...

...there's going to be probably some rising rates. And whether you have an event that occurs at a wildfire in California or a hurricane in the southeast, those events, eventually that catches up to the entire industry and ultimately what your borrowers and our clients pay. So it's always a much different, more difficult conversation because I would venture to say most folks listening to this podcast having experienced some increased insurance costs. So lots of what? Lots of lot more events, something to pay attention to. And I can really go down the rabbit hole of some of the wise as well, because every single insurance company that writes insurance, whether it's an investor space or not, they go out and they buy reinsurance. And so what that means is you may have a policy, and I'm going to use state farm, because everybody's heard of state farm, right. But a company like state farm, they're going to go out and buy reinsurance in certain parts of the country and they, as state farm, are going to take on the first x number of dollars, say ten million or fifty million dollars of loss in an area, and then the reinsurance company is going to come in and take that over and above and an insurance company like state farm is going to build that into the rate they charge their consumer. Well, when reinsurance has just has to pay out, then that means every year when state farm or any insurance company goes to renegotiate what they have to buy, their reinsurance costs go up, then they're going to pass that a law. So eventually these worldwide cate catastrophic events catch up to the man or a woman on the street that's buying insurance at a one off basis. So these events that happened the nuclear meltdown at the Japanese nuclear plants several years ago, huge rink global reinsurance event. Things that happen in Australia are wildfires in Australia from a few years ago, all those things, the global insurance market is all reinsured and when reinsurance costs go up it affects everybody. It...

...just may take a few years. That's really interesting. So you could be at the top of the tallest mountain that doesn't get any rainfall or just gets enough rainfall. You know, the perfect conditions, and doesn't matter. You're still kind of swept up in eventually a trail that leads back to global insurance. And you know a nuclear disaster in Japan will eventually a fact. You. That's that's that's pretty interesting. I always have thought of it as much more localizer than that. It's truly a global business. It really is, because most insurers, most domestic United States insurers, are buying reinsurance from one of a handful of global reinsurers. Aig is one, Muni reswiss re. A lot of these global reinsurers are ensuring things really across across the globe or for domestic United States based insurers, and so when their costs go up, they're going to they're going to pass those costs along because insurance companies, as everybody knows, they're not in it they're in it for a profit and they're going to underwrite that profit and eventually, you know you're going to have some good years and bad years. We've seen some kind of decrease in some of the numbers global events. Two thousand and seventeen was a really active year. You had Hurricane Harvey and Urma and those things, and we've seen a little bit of a dip. But the last couple of years we've seen a really big increase in those kind of global disasters that are occurring. So yeah, I let's unpack the flood one as an example, because you mentioned just taking the Greenville, example, and I ended up getting flood insurance for my home shortly after, I guess a couple months in. We crossed our annual average total rainfall amount by, I think it was may, of two thousand and twenty, like we had had from January to May as much rain as we normally have in a whole calendar year and we ended up at the very end of the year double the normal rainfall rate. So the soil was just saggy the whole year and it didn't take a ton of rain to get you know, roads flooding and all kinds of nightmares. But then it was mid year that year when I was like just poked around about flood insurance because growing up...

...we always had flood insurance. We were anywhere from a hundred yards to, you know, two miles inland off the coast, so close enough that you're in the hurricane zone. I grew up just south of merdle beach and marls inlet, so yeah, you think about flooding there and you see the effects of it. But whenever I came up here I was like how we're in the mountains. You know hurricanes will just be some bad rain. If it hits us up here, but the you know, the hurricanes up here knockholmwood. I'm sure it'll happen, but haven't been that terrible in the time I've been up here. It's just the crazy rainfall events and days and days of rain and that causes even in Greenville, South Carolina, like like borderline catastrophic flooding all over. So how do you, and I guess when I went to go get flood insurance, was like it's like five hundred bucks a year to ensure against just something horrific that could happen. And even you know, if you end up paying five hundred bucks a year for twenty years and nothing happens, that some good piece of mind. At least for me it helps me, helps me sleep better. But how do you, especially from a real estate investor side, if you're an active investor, how do you consult folks? And I'm sure it's case by case, but just philosophically, you know you can ensure against so many things above and beyond just a standard policy. So talk to me about what the consultation looks like. They're yeah, so you know, one of the things always really push for investors to use as a tool when they're evaluating a property of whether they want to invest in it is to check the flood zone, because you've kind of hit the nail on the head. I mean, you know, every property United States is in a flood zone. Now, whether or not the flood zone that we're a lenders going to require you to purchase flood insurance is to be determined. Most properties in the United States or in what's called a flood zone X, which means it's not in the one and one hundred year floodplane. Then a lot of their properties that are in a what's called an a zone, and there's a a prefix and then several, you know, several variations of the...

...a zone. But if it's in an a zone, then typically that the lender is going to require that you buy flood insurance. Now flood flood is real. is turned into a bit of a political issue as well, because the National Flood Insurance Program has been around since the early s and throughout the last, you know, fifty years or so, you've had more and more to where now pretty much every community in the United States participates in a national flood insurance program, and what that means is is that new construction is going to be built to federal standards and if it's sub property this in a flood zone, that the property will build be built at least a foot above was called the base flood elevation of that community. However, with some of the act changes in now, every time you hear about the Federal Government shutting down for lack of funding, and that happened I think a few years ago. The national flood insurance programs part of that. So a lot of times when that happens, then theoretically lending would shut down. Two, if you've got a property as in a flood zone, because the ability for a borrower to buy flood insurance from the NFIP is is not supported, although I will say in the recent years there's been more and more private flood insurers that have entered into the market. But what I would say for investors to really kind of think about as well as if you do buy a property in a flood zone, you really want to check a couple of things. One, what's the cost of that flood insurance? Because, I mentioned, flood insurance has gotten a little bit political in the sense that that the NFIP has been subsidized for forever. It's never really been an underwriting profit. It's not priced to be a profitable insurance for the federal government, and so these taxpayers essentially of have subsidized it forever. And so a few years ago Congress so, well, we're going to start charging actuarily sound rates on flood insurance. Well, what it will cost for this program to be profitable. And once that law went...

...into effect, the in the the intended consequence was that folks we're seeing flood insurance rates really, really go sky high and certain areas, for example New Orleans. New Orleans is below sea level, and in Congress that we're going to charge folks in New Orleans what it really ought a cost for it to be profitable. Well, there was a really large political outcry from that because it's like it had no, wait a minute, we need more time, even though there have been plenty of time given for notice. Isn't that sort of thing? But when the the actual consequences were felt, Congress backed off and kind of backed off of that a little bit in ease some of the pricing. However, they've kind of slowly eased back into some of that over the last several years. And so if an investor owns a property in a flood zone, I would argue that that and property sitting right beside another property that's not in a flood zone where flood insurance is going to be required. Now, whether or not it's a good idea to buy it, I think it's always a good idea to protect yourself because floods apparel that's excluded under a standard policy. See, but if you got these two property side by side, ones in a flood zoner once not the one that's not in a flood zone is worth inherently more than the one that is because we've seen some flood insurance now that it's being charged actual eily sound rates in certain parts of the country and for certain types of property, be six, seven, eight thouars a year. Well, if you're selling that to another investor and they've got eight thousand more dollars in flood insurance expense, or to a homeowner that's now got eight thousand more dollars and homeowners insurance expense or flood insurance expense, they've don't have an option but to offer you less money for that property. So I think it's a really important factor for folks to look at when you see like what zone is this property in? And we see folks, we see sometimes in these bulk purchases or sales to a lot of funds or investors or that they try to office offload some of their flood insurance properties because insurance costs are going up. Now the good news is is, you know, we're seeing more and more private insurers that are entering the space. They are writing insurance for what they call NFIP compliant flood insurance. That takes the place of...

...an NFIP policy. That creates some competition and hopefully some lower prices. So all you know, I would say to any of your listeners are viewers is that you know, establish a good relationship, whether it's with real protect we'd love to work with you, or your current insure and when you're looking at those properties, have them see if they'll run a flood insurance, was called a flood zone determination for that property. You can also go to FEMA DOT GOV and there's some tools there where you can help determine what floods on your properties in. Yeah, you mentioned that flood is one of the disasters. That's YEP, exclusions, say not a cover excluded peril? Yep, right. What are some of the other common excluded perils? Because I didn't that's another thing is I didn't even think about. You know, I thought flood insurance was kind of a coastal thing and then came up here and I was like, well, it floods because of rain or something, then that's fine, but absolutely not the case. Yeah, so when I actually started digging through my insurance policy, Oh gosh, like there's there's a lot here to to unpack and really understand and make some more decisions off of it. So what are some other common ones? Earthquake is one. Is a really is is a common exclusion that's not covered. So earthquake would be in certain areas of the country. If you wanted to have earthquake covers, that would be a separate policy you would need to need to buy and consider war. So you know, something that we haven't really thought about really too much. But you know, there's a lot of global events going on a well, hopefully that it won't affect folks here that own property United States. That's a common exclusion. That's under a policy. So most of the policies that we work with are going to be what are called special perils or all all risk policy, which means it's covered unless its specifically excluded. And there's certain certain things in intentional acts are some things like that. They're that are going to be excluded under an insurance policy. But but ye, have flood and quake would be kind of the two biggest, you know, perils that folks think.

Well, it kind of Theosn't that widespread disaster that could be really devastating to a community? God and got it. And in terms of total loss, all right, what's the biggest behemoth every year? Does it shift between, you know, earthquakes, tornadoes, fires floods, because there is there one that just always happens to be at or near the top of the list. Yeah, I mean, you know, the two most common are going to be hurricane and we're seeming you in California wildfires are really big deal. Every part of the country has their own list of perils. It seems like that can really affect but then you get these unexpected events, right, so like last year in two thousand and twenty one, there was the widespread freezing event that occurred down in Texas, where you had temperatures that plummeted even down as far south as Houston, where you there in the teens and S, and you have frozen pipes and you have all these things. Are Houses weren't built to withstand that. We just had pipes bursting all over the place. And so every part of the country, though, has some of their unique disasters, so to speak, that that really could that face that area again. We alluded a little bit to it wildfire in California. We see a lot of wind and hall come across the Midwest, in the southeast and we see a lot of tropical cyclone or hurricanes that come through the Gulf or up the east coast. We've seen those, those hurricanes, get farther and farther north over the last several years as well, and so we're just seeing again kind of along those same lines as what's different now are those disasters were seeing a lot more, or we're seeing a lot more of those events occur in different parts of the country. Freezing in Texas, hurricane and New York, just things that traditionally haven't happened historically but that are now starting to happen. Yeah, Lions and Tigers and bears on my doesn't seem like you can hide anywhere or something, something's lurking around the corner. Well, so I like to say I'm a I'm a I'm an optist by nature, but I'm a paid pessimist. So you know, and that is part of that's that's part of what you know what we face in the insurance in the insurance industry. Right,...

...what are the things? That are the bad things that can happen? And I'll say this to you know, when folks think about insurance, a lot of the times they think about property. Right, I have this house, I had this building, and what's going to what bad it's going to happen? What I would also tell folks to really really consider and to think about is the other part of insurance is liability insurance, and that is when you, as the owner of the property, or legally liable to a third party for property damage or bodily injury to someone else. And so liability, I would argue, a lot of the times, is much, much as important or more important for an investor to really pay attention to and to make sure that they've got proper liability insurance in place and a liability policy that's going to respond in the event that they that someone does suffer a property damage or a property damage or bodily injury claim one of their properties. That is a good call. That definitely seems like the more litigious big question mark on what lie ability is in something like that versus, you know, bodily injury, versus structure where you can break out and excel sheet and know what the damage is if you get into that side of the fence and it gets much disier. So that's a that's a good call out to you, especially when even you know there's things too, and I know we don't have all day, because I could talk about this all day, but there's things too. If you're in real estate investor that you're doing a lot of fix and flip work. Well, are you your own general contractor or you hiring out a third party general contractor? So there's some noninsurance risk management things that folks can do as well to protect themselves and their access and ultimately, you know, you guys as the lender, in the event that, depending on what type of project it is and what type of property it is as well, you know. So, Hey, if you hire a general contractor and there's somebody injured in relation to the contracting work. Ideally you would want that contractors insurance to respond in the event of a claim. That your suit right, and so there's lots of things that investors can do to protect themselves and they're really not...

...that difficult. But it's a matter of making sure that you've got an insured contract or, you've got a contract, that contract gives you rights to be listed on that contractors insurance possible is an event of a claim, whether it's a property damage claim or a liability claim, typically the first thing and insurance adjuster is going to want to ask. They're going to want to inspect the property, but they're going to want to take a look at leases, contracts with property management companies, they're going to want to take a look at contracts with general contractors and they're going to want to figure out all all those things to protect their client, which typically is your borrower, and to make sure that their interests are protected in the event that there is another party at fault particularly yeah, that is a lot. Definitely the the message I'm getting from all this is don't let insurance be just to mail it in. Check the box thing like you need to think about it just as deeply as any other part of your livelihood. You real estate, investing a line item on a budget like definitely peel back the layer a little bit and assask that risk. And let me say this, Tut, I mean it's you know, folks spend an enormous amount of money on attorneys and accountants. And I'm not saying that insurance is the insurance agents are of the same that we're as smart as insurance agents or accountants or as attorneys and accounts. But you do all these things to protect your assets. You do all the create LLC's, you do all these things and you need to make sure that your insurance program is following what you've set up, whether it's from an accounting perspective or whether it's from an illegal perspective, because you do all that work and you want to make sure. I mean think about what's insurance right. We like when you when you go to fewer to sit in a class. Insurance is the transfer of risk. Okay, you're taking your dollars and transferring your risk to an insurance company, okay, and so folks spend a lot of money to transfer risk by taking this property out of their personal name and into an LLC. You guys a lot of times require it as a lender. Yeah, or there's...

...they're spending all this money, you know, with an account to figure out ways to save money. And so insurance, while we don't need to be part of that structure, we need to know what that what the goal is of the legal in the accounting, so that we can structure the insurance to respond and help either transfer that risk or there may again be some what we do is not just insurance, right, it's insurance and risk management. So, if what are some non insurance ways as you can help manage that risk, and that's where a good agent or a good broker that deals with real estate investors a lot can really help your borrowers think about themselves, not necessarily as just a single real estate investor, but there're a person that's in the business of real estate investing. Right. They are in this business. Some folks are in a full time, some folks are in a part time, but that doesn't change the exposures that everybody has it. You know, we see always ask investors do you have a property manager? And also no, I know I do it myself. Okay. Well, we actually you do have a property manager yourself, and so you can get just a suit as a professional property manager. So you've got to be really, really careful, especially in today's litigious environment. Very true. Yeah, absolutely litigious, and you hear different. Lee Rogers. Good, transfer all of your risk to Lee Rodgers and real protect. I'm going to do it as soon as a hop on her. Hey, Lee, we're going to have to have you back on the hurricane season. Yeah, I love that. We're going to unpack it, but thank you so much for taking some time to change at with me here. Absolutely insightful. Real protectcom check it out, Lee. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you on the road. I am sure within the next couple months. Will be in Miami in a month or so, about a month and a half, right before hurricane season, so we'll do some market research about that. Beautiful. I'll be there with you up for right. Thanks by thanks, Lee. Thanks everybody for listening and take care all right. Thank you. Are you a real estate investor looking...

...for the right lender that can finance all your deals and help you scale Lima? One capital has the best suite of loan products in the Industry Barnet, whether that's fix and flips, fix and holds, building new construction or buying rental properties. They have incredible financing solutions for it all. A reliable common since Linder is one of the most important parts of your investment team, and that's exactly what you get with Lima one. Let Lima one capital show you how they've helped thousands of real estate investor scale and increase their well, check out Lima onecom or call eight hundred two five nine zero five ninety five to speak with the consultant and preparation for your next project. Thank you for joining us today on the real estate of things podcast. Subscribe and tune in weekly for new content from the industry's best while we continue to unpack the nuances of this dynamic market. Follow US across social media for additional insights and analysis on the topics covered in each episode, and remember to rate, review and share the show.

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